Once investigated a shot fired into a roll top desk. Aug 25, 2021 pluong91 said: Hello all users that plan on making a P320 Accidental Discharge Threads -We love our P320's and have done the research when these articles and lawsuits came out, we don't need you to tell us, we have done our due diligence. Bineau added the review is looking at so-called ancillary equipment (meaning the holster and other items) as one element of that broader investigation. The list is long proving gun manufactures were well aware of this problem now for 121 years yet they abandoned this when the Glock infested the gun market. Which in and of itself is user error / misuse. I didnt even touch it! Sep 20, 2021 613 571 Idaho. Im a Kirk guy, a Shatner Kirk guy. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. While this incident occurred months ago, this erroneous media report is driven by multiple sources, including our competitors, and coincides with the imminent release of other Canadian military and law enforcement tenders, indicating the timing of its release is an attempt to improperly influence the procurements, the statement said. This is why we now have back up safeties on garden tractors and riding lawn mowers. Many gun makers have had issues with drop firing, unintended discharge, bad safeties This is a resource I compiled of semi-auto pistols that have been recalled or Upgraded for Safety related problems like Drop Firing, Safeties that Malfunction, Risk of Accidental Discharge, etc. Fundamentally, the bits that the ambulance chaser claims are flawed function exactly the same way as a S&W M&P. If the P320 was so great then why did special forces go to the Glock 19? LEO handguns get into struggles, they get laid and rolled on, they get smacked into vehicles/doorways, they get dropped, they get drawn and holstered way more often than their civilian counterparts. Ever since the internet went mainstream I have read about the Sigs decline. 2. Thats the American system at work in all its corrupt majesty. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. Thats fine. DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. But it hardly indicts the P320 as a badly engineered weapon or that its worse than another brand. Such being the case, there very well may BE in inherent design flaw in the gun; We shouldnt just cast the thought aside as being beyond consideration and insist on blaming the problem on operator error.. The thing is, youd probably need to generate many Gs of force in both directions simultaneously. Yes, its reliable, but no more so than most other major brands well known models. Neither argument is relevant or very intelligent and certainly not useful. Theyre just on a 30 year nap hoping what they did will carry them forever. Im reading about a moron who wraps a loaded firearm in a cloth and stuff it in a gym bag, and other dumb behavior that tells me the weapon isnt the problem but the user. SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. At this point I would have to say that Taurus is a better handgun. Mechanical engagement of sear to striker not deep enough (wanted lighter, smoother trigger pull without giving it any hand workmanship required with the deep notch much safer classic systems made since 1900) Result another big fail. Great job, this threat needed some levity! Someone is going to read this thread and be bewildered. TTAG talked to SIG Sauer about the P320 suits and the ABC reports. Charlton posted to the online commercial forum Canadian Gun Nutz, describing the CBC News piece as inaccurate and promising SIG Sauer would release a statement. Anyway there was one good thing to come from those movies, The USS Vengeance. SIG says ABC had intended to include some of those other claims in their reports, but after SIG informed the network of the additional information that was uncovered, those cases werent included in either of the segments. All chasing that pot of gold at the end of litigation.. Not that big of a stretch when considering the lawyers beating the bushs for clients to add to the lawsuits, and the fact many of them will lose their jobs if its proven to NOT be the gun, but instead negligence on their part. 3. (unless theyre SWAT or something). No the devil went down to Georgia to learn how to play a fiddle. The P320 should be scrapped and SIG Sauer USA should redesign a new pistol around the striker firing mechanism instead of just retrofitting a hammer fired pistol (P250). I have almost a hatred for Glocks but the one thing that they are is reliable. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. My gun just went off! LOL! Where is that defect now? The thing I hate is getting kicked around! I lost $150 dumping that gun and Sig instead of acknowledging that it had a problem and calling it a recall, denied all and everything and called it a voluntary upgrade., At my LGS a P320 just went off when one of the guys put it the counter when he set up a target. Would you? Note the addition of ominous background music in the second seven-minutes-longer version (there was no music in the Good Morning America version). On February 19, 2021, Military.com reported: A former U.S. Marine and federal agent has filed a $10 million lawsuit against Sig Sauer Inc. alleging that his holstered Sig P320 a pistol that the Army's new sidearm is based on accidentally discharged, firing a 9mm bullet into his right leg. The problems associate with those pistols (and the P365) have long since been ironed out. Wont last!. To be sure, Ive informally asked every other owner of a Serpa holster when I meet them, whether they have ever had an ND because of the holster. He would have been booted after the first time, but being a cop comes with some special privileges. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. Right up front, the use of an ill-fitting/improper-for-the-gun holster instantly negates any idea of an unintended discharge being the fault of the design. Rather, it's because those LEO P320 pistols are seeing much more physical action than ones carried by civilians. congrats. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g. Infact you have to pay shipping cost to get that fixed even though its their screw up. The heads up testing was immediately finished the Sig was the winner. . And they would not have done that for no reason at all. 1.A rush to market, and as usual the blind greed of the gun companies who no longer test pistols before marketing them think it is cheaper (so the idiots think) to let the public test them. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. At least the Lion roars when he is hungry, the C.E.O smiles at you and when you turn your back he puts a knife right into it. Fair enough. Give me a break. They are being replaced with Glocks. Both versions of the ABC report included comments from Officer Hiltons attorney, Jeffrey Bagnell, who said, Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves. That a pistol will be carried in a way it shouldnt (say, in a gym bag or a purse). Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Wow new finger grooves, crazy innovation. One of the officers a few years ago was carrying his P320 in a P226 holster that he took a Dremel to make the P320 fit. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. That wont last for long, the P320 (M17 AND M18) are already failing in the field. They function as commanded every time. These lawsuits arent about Sig making a defective weapon, theyre about lawyers building a nationwide consensus in civil trial that makes it easier (and more lucrative) to soak gunmakers. They suck and Im awesome!, 2. Who function tests their firearm 1) with a round in the chamber, and 2) when its pointed at an extremity? This guy had been working at the LGS for over a decade and never had an AD or ND, he was the strictest when it came to safety. Not only is it now the designated sidearm of all branches of the U.S. military, there are over a million of them in civilian hands. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. But when you set a gun down on a table, and the damn thing goes off seconds after you let go, that sounds like a defective gun. Kyle . I call b-s on all these my gun magically went off. That said, I own multiple P320s, but all of them have the manual safety due to personal preference. Why you and I are arguing over a gun that neither owns or will own, Excellent work. Maybe in South America a poor military did, but thatd be about it. I bought a P320 and went through the voluntary upgrade. Trust a P365 with your life. Use a proper holster and follow other gun safety protocols. The 1911 had one added, the FN 1905 had one added in 1906. The second accidental shooting happened after police supervisors internally raised questions about the safety of the SIG Sauer P320. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. Hey, Im sitting here staring at my P320, waiting for it to go bang! Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. When a consumer product is likely to be operated in such a way that it causes accidents because it is way too easy to make a serious mistake because of human error when operating it the manufactures are told that the machine must be made safer. A holstered base P320 allegedly had a mysterious accidental discharge without pulling the trigger. And then theres Gunter Walker, a civilian, who says his P320 fired on its ownwhen he placed the weapon down on his nightstand, shooting him through the palm of his left hand.. You have entered an incorrect email address! Golly didnt Sig catch he!! Sig P320 is just one of many pistols with Safety related. After all, there are limits on complying with Rule 2 and even Rule 3, because a gun muzzle is ALWAYS covering something, somewhere, and ALWAYS knowing what lies beyondperhaps FAR beyonda possible target is an impossibility. (It wasnt my gun). I love when people call law enforcement officers highly trained. Most dont get more training than what they had in the academy unless they are getting paid time to train, or are going for something speciality such as S.W.A.T. This website has been messed up all week so that might be the problem in replying. Instead we see a Sig that is ran by Mr. Cohen of Kimber fame have repeated quality and product development failures. , 54 people all shooting themselves. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. With the 320, the striker is in full-cock position, and held there through the operation of the trigger sear and the positive striker-blocking safety. Ironic that the trendsetters of yesteryear are trying to tear down the innovator of today because its Not perfected yet! and the Design isnt worked out!. Everyone remember the video of the DEA agent shooting himself while explaining that he was highly qualified to carry a gun? Police Department, was wounded when his P320 duty gun discharged without a trigger pull while he was carrying it in a gym bag wrapped carefully with a cloth. Officer Collette was wounded in his left leg. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh.. He is acting as a consultant in the Collette suit that was filed last week. Cops are crap with guns, unlike me, a REAL pistolero! His haste to avoid the embarrassment of his gun being seen on the floor turned the incident from a wardrobe malfunction (accidental exposure of a concealed weapon, probably just a reprimand from the OPR) into a negligent discharge (the gun being fired led to him personally getting fired!). You should always use a real holster, or carry it condition 3 or 4 if its off-body. There used to be a problem, which is why Sig fixed it. That focus drifts. That show with no Shatner-Kirk and only a Nimoy-Spock wouldnt have gotten past the first season. Effectively: you must be this dumb to get this job. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. The clearest memory I have about the many people experiencing post-upgrade discharges is a cop who set his P320 on a table, and several seconds after letting go, IT DISCHARGED ON ITS OWN! In June, Cambridge police Lt. Thomas Ahern filed suit, accusing Sig Sauer of selling a dangerously defective product after his P320 fired on its own while he was in the department's SWAT team van with six other officers. When Villani was asked for his opinion of SIG Sauer, he said, I carry SIGs, I own SIGs, I just dont own a 320nor would I ever. When Scott asked Villani what he found when he took a P320 apart, he said, I thought Wow, they need to do their homework, they need to fix this gun.. If these same folks were around in the 80s and got their way, no one today would know what a Glock was. Bravo. And those are exactly the kinds of plaintiffs who happen to make up the vast majority of the lawsuits filed against SIG. TidalWave Professional Aug 25, 2021 #17 Bassbob said: Somehow I seriously doubt the guns just shot themselves. This is the only post fix tale of p320 failure I have heard that is not some form of but it just went off, I didnt do nutthin! The problem was strikers. there is no better. I wish nothing bad on anyone carrying regardless of brand. Stupid marine, cop, citizen, its their fault. I cant stand Glocks but SIG P320s are junk. Theres still the P938 extractors snapping they refuse to acknowledge. The more someone touches, loads, clears, cleans, holsters, un-holsters, or otherwise deals with their firearm, the higher the statistical likelihood that complacence kicks in. Google Keith Slatowski, is he lying also? I dont know nothing about Sigs, I do know any gunm that goes off when I lay it on a table gets sold with a warning and I never touch that brand or model again. . As for Seals they have their own contract with Glock but can carry anything they want. Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. Again, these are examples the plaintiff in this case is using to support his claim that the P320 is prone to un-commanded discharges.. Capitol Police Officers Explanation for Shooting and Killing Ashli Babbitt Is Riddled With Problems, The City of Wichita Raked In Almost $200,000 Selling Seized Guns in the Last Five Years, State Judge Issues Order Blocking Enforcement of Illinois Firearms Ban Act Statewide, Federal Judge Grants Injunction Blocking Enforcement of ATFs Frame or Receiver Rule, Illinois Rep. Bob Morgan: Anything Stamped M&P is a Weapon of War, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-ZZ6pynGLM, https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/dea-agent-lee-paige-still-wont-go-away/, https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0LUbLu6TqA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jsu6WsSQ2_g, https://millsentertainment.smugmug.com/William-Shatner-The-Wrath-of-Khan. All those customers who paid $1600 now had a limited function paper weight. But the reality is that the military has been using the Sig P320 for almost 5 years and they show no signs of changing. As a result, the P320s were withdrawn from service, leaving the JTF-2 with their older P226s. There are tens of millions of gun owners, far more than there are cops, and the VAST majority of those folks buy their guns and drop them a nightstand drawer or up on a closet shelf and leave it until theyre needed. SIG is choosing to litigate their problems away. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. The fact that Shatner was doing Wrath of Kahn meet and greets at 90 years old kind of soured me. If you want to find the lowest form of life on the planet interview any C.E.O. I agree that Glock is sitting on their laurels and has been for decades. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. Its also interesting that theres apparently no corresponding flood of civilian lawsuits against SIG with similar claims of guns going off, even though the public owns far more P320s than do law enforcement agencies. Sigs suck and my Glock is awesome!. Good thing you werent serious, thatd be terr..uh.oops. Sig, take this firearm off the market, and recall. And yes, if I pulled some of those stunts, Id have my membership revoked. Third, Glock has had problems, too. Canadian Special Forces Command has not said what caused the gun to go off unexpectedly, but the company said a conclusion has been reached. JTF-2 is the only unit in. https://sofrep.com/news/dod-evaluation-says-armys-new-sig-sauer-p320-service-pistol-riddled-issues/. -You plan on getting rid of your P320, great! Sound familiar? Not just police in US had issues with sig p320. He wanted to see how accurate the gun was, especially after the customer got it back after the voluntary upgrade. My elderly aunt drove her Volvo into a parked car, and the yard behind it, and the house behind that, while she was pressing the brake as hard as she could. Strangely the car kept accelerating, almost as if she were flooring the gas pedal. LOL! Hilton has filed a $15 million lawsuit alleging the P320 has a serious design and manufacturing flaw. Sig fanboys are almost as bad as Glock fanboys. He likens it to a bow-and-arrow, pulled taut. It doesnt matter whether SIG is at fault or not. Holding the striker fully cocked with nothing to block it if the sear fails is questionable at best.